Audio file 106-1

Ernest speaks of the book "The Adventures of the Black Girl in Search for God", where the main character carries a "knobkirri" (knobbed stick), asks questions of religious leaders but does not receive any satisfactory answers; Ernest sees a resonance in the appeal by the Archbishop of Canterbury to the Pope that all Christians should be united

"The Adventures of the Black Girl in Search for God" by George Bernard Shaw (originally published 1932)

Ernest compares fragmented Christianity to African perspective of One and the saying of "Umuntu"

"Umuntu", today spelt "Ubuntu", means "I am a person through other people. My humanity is tied to yours" as translated by Archbishop Desmond Tutu (1931-2021)

Wonga asks about the book and what it signifies to Ernest, since he read it during his time at the University of Fort Hare but still remembers it today; Ernest states that it's because there's still no answer today on how to bring humans together

[tape stopped and restarted] Wonga asks if Ernest was shocked by the criticism of Christianity in the book and Ernest says he was already reading Karl Marx with his atheistic stance

Wonga asks about I.B. Tabata; Ernest thinks Tabata's upbringing was similar to his

Ernest speaks about Christianity at the University of Fort Hare

Wonga asks for Ernest's memories of Tabata [tape stopped and restarted multiple times]

Ernest speaks of the sports they played at the University of Fort Hare (and recalls a cricketer from Bachuanaland); Wonga mentions Makhaya Ntini, the first black bowler for South Africa

Bachuanaland was a British protectorate and became independent Botswana in 1966

Ernest speaks of his friend Jordan who preferred writing and poetry over sports; Wonga brings in that Ernest's mother read poetry in the Xhosa language

[tape stopped and restarted] Wonga asks about the placement of Ernest's and his friends' beds in the common bedroom, the placement of the dormitory on campus (Ernest mentions Bishop Smythe), and locations of other buildings

[tape stopped and restarted] Wonga asks about Jordan

[tape stopped and restarted] Ernest agrees with an article in Le Monde newspaper about "mondialisation", which he interprets through Marx as all workers needing to see all humans as equal; Ernest speaks of this motivating his and Sonja Ferlov Mancoba in their work

Mancoba mis-remembered the Høst 1948 exhibition as a Linien one; and may have
mis-remembered Bille asking Sonja to ask Kjersmeier if the artists could visit his collection

[tape ends, continues 106-2]