Audio file 106-2

[cont'd from 106-1] Ernest finishes about Carl Kjersmeier not allowing the Danish artists to visit his collection, only Sonja and Ernest; Ernest opines on why Marxism is not possible with humanism

Wonga asks about the debating society at the University of Fort Hare; Ernest says there were debating societies at mission schools Lovedale and Grace Dieu. That as the University of Fort Hare was a new institution, the society had to be built. Ernest gives details of how the debates are run.

Wonga asks for other active participants and Ernest names Govan Mbeki; Ernest speaks of FW De Klerk and the National Party (mentions Nelson Mandela); Ernest speaks of Thabo Mbeki [tape corrupted in parts] in this section

Govan Mbeki would become a Senator and his son, Thabo, the second President of post-apartheid South Africa

Wonga returns to topic of debating societies, asks questions of Ernest (mentions Ramfaki, Jordan and ANC)

Ernest recalls a cultural exchange with the "Grahamstown" when they presented a play on marriage in traditional African society

"Grahamstown" refers to Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa.

"lobola" is a price paid by the groom to acquire a bride - it is still practiced today to varying degrees of wealth exchange versus symbollism

Ernest reveals that his grandfather had polygamous marriages

polygamy is still recognised by the Zulu people today

Wonga asks about the exchanges between the Rhodes and Fort Hare Universities (asks about Professor Rousseau); they argue and Ernest explains the exchange was initiated by the white students of Rhodes who were interested in Africans - unlike the wider society

Ernest gives more details about the marriage presentation

[tape stopped and restarted] Wonga asks about Ernest's exposure to live theatre and if the African traditions were foreign to Ernest; Ernest explained his parents discussed African progression versus heritage

Wonga asks for more details but Ernest speaks about preconception of blacks by whites

[tape stopped and restarted] Wonga asks a question but Ernest remembers Quinana, Jordan and Tabata being involved in the play, having grown up in rural South Africa (whereas Ernest grew up in urban mining towns) and who could speak of historical contacts between blacks and whites including the story of Nongqawuse (Ernest explains she is the African Jeanne d'Arc)

The story of Nongqawuse is important to the amaXhosa

Ernest continues about the defeat of the Xhosa people at Fort Hare, named after Colonel Hare, as told in a poem

[tape ends]