Audio file 112-2

Wonga on irresponsibility to the future by nations

[tape stopped and restarted] Ernest recalls not accepting the Empire Exhibition commission; his work "Future Africa" is exhibited at the University of Fort Hare (mentions Rheinallt Jones)

The Empire Exhibition was held in Johannesburg in 1936

Wonga asks when the work was made, and Ernest struggles to remember

see further in audio file

Wonga asks about the sale, Ernest recalls it being sold to Rheinallt Jones

see further in audio file

[tape stopped and restarted] they consult Elza Miles' biography and confirm buyer was Bishop Parker (not Rheinallt Jones), they note the work was exhibited in 1934 in Johannesburg; they confirm that it must have been carved whilst at Fort Hare (dating it between 1933-34) [tape stopped and restarted multiple times]

[tape stopped and restarted] Ernest is trying to remember Jones: they identify his first name as Rheinallt, that he was the head of the Bantu Welfare Trust which helped Ernest to travel to Europe

Mancoba's thank you letter to the Bantu Welfare Trust is in the database

[tape stopped and restarted] Wonga asks about Ernest's mother's death whilst he was at Fort Hare, Ernest does not answer

Florence Mancoba passed away in 1933

[tape stopped and restarted] Ernest recalls two Englishman in the World War II internment camp "St Denis"; he recalls Milosz, an English Jew, who is also sent to Drancy and then to Royallieu-Compiègne internment camp; he tries to remember Thomas, his friend, who is at St Denis the whole time

there are other audio files in which World War II internment and Milosz and Thomas are discussed

Wonga asks for more information about Thomas: Ernest recalls speaking to Thomas about segregation in South Africa, and Thomas advising him to get an official British passport (rather than the colonial South African passport); he and Sonja receive British passports

there are other files in which citizenship is discussed

Ernest tells that he was unable to renew his British passport but Sonja could, that they got French passports instead

there are other files in which citizenship is discussed

Wonga adds another incidence of contradiction, about the British sending people freed from the internment camps to Australia after the war to populate the colony but not Jews

[tape ends]