Audio file 85-2

Wonga asks Ernest to recall his second year at the mission school of Grace Dieu attending Standard 5

Ernest attended Grace Dieu Diocesan College, a school set up by the Anglican Church

Ernest speaks about the start of the Boy Scouts at Grace Dieu in his Standard 5 and 6 years (Wonga asks about Baden-Powell and South Africa); Ernest says South Africa rejected Black Africans being Scouts so instead they became Pathfinders

also speaks on the subject in 60-1

[tape stopped and restarted multiple times] Ernest repeats and adds more detail to the start of black Pathfinders

Ernest compares his Uncle starting his own church following rejection by the official church; his Uncle followed the rituals of the church but for a Black congregation

[tape stopped and restarted] Ernest recalls that during his time studying at the University of Fort Hare, he tried to start Pathfinders for the local black youths

[tape stopped and restarted multiple times] They return to Grace Dieu and discuss how long Ernest was there: they think he entered at 16 years of age and became a teacher when he was 20

Ernest birth year and therefore his age cannot be confirmed. In the archive are British and French passports that show his birth year as 1907. Yet in audio file 56-1, he states it is 1904. Various writings give 1910.

Ernest's biographer, Elza Miles, wrote to the South African Home Affairs who confirm they do not have a birth certificate on file (copy of letter in Johannesburg Art Gallery archive); W. Sze wrote to the Department for information on Ernest's first (South African) passport and there is no surviving record.

Wonga tries to figure out when Ernest began formal education in Boksburg, they determine from 10 to 16 years of age

Elza Miles who interviewed Ernest extensively for the biography records his first school, an Anglican Church school in Boksburg, from 1909 to 1915. Using 1904 as his birth year, this means he was between the ages of 5 to 11 years old.

[tape stopped and restarted] Wonga asks about the Grace Dieu programme to train teachers

After that first school, Ernest attended Grace Dieu Diocesan College.

[tape stopped]