Audio file 81-1

Wonga comments on the fortunes that leads Ernest to meet Ejler Bille and Alberto Giacometti, given his objective to come to Paris to meet artists that appreciated African art; Likewise the fortune of meeting Sonja Ferlov Mancoba, one of a few Danes who knew about African art

Wonga prompts Ernest on first meeting them; Ernest recounts how Poulsen introduced him to Bille and Bille suggested that Poulsen also introduce Ferlov Mancoba; Ferlov Mancoba tells Mancoba about Carl Kjersmeier's collection of African art

Ernest begins to speak about the War breaking out and Wonga tries to return him to meeting the two Linien artists; Ernest picks up the thread, recalls Bille speaking of the Linien artists trying, through a "Freudian attitude", to get society to face societal issues, and on Bille's belief that the academy served to create distractions

Wonga asks about their discussions on African art, and Mancoba speaks of European artists being attracted to African sculptures but conflicted given their conditioning on art based on the Renaissance

Wonga interrupts that the problem is the failure of the European academies; Ernest disagrees, believes the Renaissance sent art down the path of pleasantries; Wonga disagrees, suggests that Sonja Ferlov Mancoba would disagree as one of her favourite artist is Andrea Mantegna

Ernest turns to music and Mozart; Wonga tries to get agreement between them about the Renaissance and they debate, referring to Nietzsche and classical Greek philosophy; Wonga brings up Picasso and African art, Cezanne and Braque

Wonga brings the topic back to Linien, images of African art alongside images of works by Théodore Géricault and Paul Cezanne in their magazines, and wants to understand how the Linien artists may have used African art in their struggles against the art establishment? Wonga goes on to answer the question, with Ernest expressing agreement; Wonga speaks of colonialism ultimately marginalising the importance of African art

[tape ends, continues 81-2]