Audio file 135-1

Wonga speaks about Henry Heerup and the Danish avant-garde, that Gunnar Jespersen described Heerup as the Henri Rousseau to the Cubists (also mentions Marc Chagall and Picasso)

Wonga asks about some of the Høst artists wanting to exclude Heerup, and Heerup retiring; [tape stopped and restarted] Wonga continues about Heerop, that some of the Danes - Richard Mortensen, Ejler Bille, Sonja Ferlov Mancoba - see him as an equal; Wonga speaks of Heerup's artistic approach of the found object (comparing it to Sonja Ferlov Mancoba's approach with her sculpture "Levene Grene" (1935) and the Surrealists')

Wonga speaks of the influence of Viking art on Heerup (and also on Asger Jorn); Ernest agrees with Wonga's understanding of Heerup's art; Wonga recalls playing with Heerup's stone sculptures as a child in the garden of Fru Johannsen

Fru Johannsen is unidentified save that she collects Heerup's work

Wonga turns to Sonja Ferlov Mancoba, recalls her showing him forms within natural objects, "an innocent eye" able to discover yet refined by Surrealism; Wonga adds that she did not approve of some aspects of Surrealism

Wonga ranges into art brut and his interpretation of Ferlov Mancoba's opinion on it and the art of Jean Dubuffet; Wonga opines that Ferlov Mancoba did not like art to be systems, believed art should be a way of life; that she did not like "tricks"

The term "art brut", coined by Jean Dubuffet, refers to art that is "anti-cultural", that is instinctive rather than rational and analytical

[tape stopped and restarted] They speak about the Danish artists who turn to Hard Edge; Wonga mentions Robert Jacobsen and Ferlov Mancoba's opinion on his sculptures

"Hard Edge" refers to abstract art where areas of colour are separated by sharp, clear (or 'hard') edges. Also referred to as "Op art". Formally they represent rationality. The Danish avant-garde were torn between "Hard Edge" versus the intuitive and playful.

Wonga states that the artistic disagreement began with the hard edge group attacking the CoBrA artists for not being rigorous enough but he believes it was also an attack on artistic freedom

See comment above - Wonga and Ernest use "Cobra" to describe artists who engage in the spontaneous and intuitive

[tape stopped and restarted] Wonga speaks about the Icelandic artist, Svavar Gudnason

[tape stopped and restarted] Wonga speaks extensively of Eric Thommesan, that he was one of the artists who pushed for Høst to be about pure abstraction but later recognised his mistake

Høst was an artist association that began as an association for landscape artists. During World War II it invited wider artistic participation. By 1948, when Ernest and Sonja were guests, most of the participating artists were Danish avant-garde.

[tape ends, continues 135-2]