Audio file 117-2

[tape continues from 117-1] Wonga speaks of Sonja Ferlov Mancoba's gramophone and record collection (mentions Marian Anderson, Vivaldi, Mozart, Bruno Walter); that she listened to music when taking a break from her work and invited Ernest to listen with her

Ernest speaks of hearing musicians at his Aunt's speakeasy in the mining towns around Comet and sings a folksong he remembers; he feels an affinity between those songs and jazz; Wonga asks about the atmosphere of the speakeasies (mentions Bessie Smith) and for a translation of Ernest's song

The word "shebeen" means speakeasy or illegal drinking place and "skorkiaan" means a homebrewed alcohol; both words are in isiXhosa (a South African language)

Comet is one of the largest gold mines in South Africa and there were many informal settlements for miners; some of the settlements became towns, and the Mancoba family lived in several of them.

Wonga and Ernest speak of the nostalgia of black immigrant labourers in South African and in America, and how their migration must change culture back home; Ernest is reluctant to continue on the subject and Wonga tries to prompt him by speaking of a German documentary about street children living in Johannesburg

Initially, many of the miners were not South African but came from neighbouring African countries, many from Mozambique. The South African and African miners came from rural and agrarian communities.

Wonga returns to the South African music and culture Ernest experienced as a young boy and at University (where he first heard Mozart); Wonga asks how Sonja introduced him to jazz and classical music?

[tape stopped and restarted] Wonga returns to subject of how Ernest and Sonja shared time in Paris; Wonga asks about artists and galleries they visited together, besides Ejler Bille; Wonga said that Sonja visited Brancusi and Henri Laurens

Wonga turns to Alberto Giacometti and their relationship with him; Wonga recounts that it was Giacometti who taught Sonja how to make sculpture working with plaster and armature from the ground

Wonga is reminded of how Sonja became friends with Giacometti's model Rita Gueyfier and Clarisse Penso

Wonga interviews Clarisse Penso in the second half of audio file 46-1 and the beginning of audio file 46-2

Wonga tries to prompt Ernest's memory, asking if Sonja read Cahier d'Art; Ernest confirmed Sonja was interested in all the art journals and shared them with him; Ernest criticised Cahier d'art for only following but not advancing artistic developments

Cahiers d'Art was an art journal that covered art of the day

Wonga asks about Christian Zervos, who published on the Cyclades which interested Sonja; Wonga asks Ernest why Sonja liked the sculptures of the Cyclades and offers his answer, to which Ernest agrees

[tape ends]