Audio file 102-2

Wonga tries to understand the "hottentots" and "the San" with the click language, Ernest notes that some lost their own language to Afrikaans

The term "hottentots" is now considered derogatory. The reference is to the Khoekhoe and the San peoples who were the oldest inhabitants of Southern Africa. Their languages, with the distinctive "click" sounds are different than the Bantu-rooted languages of other African peoples.

Afrikaans is a uniquely South African language with roots in Dutch, Malay and African languages.

Ernest speaks of Freddie Oliphant, property manager at Grace Dieu, who could only speak Dutch but not his heritage language; Oliphant took Ernest with him when he visited Dutch farms

Wonga speaks of San rock art as heritage of South African art, a shamanic art that was shared by other prehistoric cultures in other parts of the world; Ernest speaks of that art as a universal spiritual language; Wonga states that aspect of old tradition should not be lost; they look at images of rock art found in the Drakensburg with representations of humans

Wonga speaks of African empires (mentions amaZulu and Shaka Zulu), but Ernest insists African imperialism was not by force nor with slavery but Wonga tries to correct him; they argue about the origin of slavery and African empires

[tape stopped and restarted] Ernest opines that Shaka's aggregation of African peoples was to build an army to resist the colonisers

Wonga wants to find the link between acts of history and artistic expression; they argue about how kings came about in South Africa (including Natal region, mention amaXhosa and amaBasotho); they argue about Shaka's motivation (Ernest notes the Kjersmeier books are missing)

[tape stopped and restarted] Wonga returns to a society's way of life and its art, power and art, speaks on the mask not just in Africa but elsewhere

In the family archive are numerous drafts of Wonga's essay on the mask

Wonga speaks of art forms in Western culture, in churches (mentions Arthur Rimbaud)

Ernest protests about whose opinion is to be expressed in the memoire; Wonga defends his stance (mentions the poet Mqhayi (not named) in his role as "Imbongi" (praise singer) in his simultaneous praise and criticism of the Prince of Wales during a visit to South Africa in 1925)

The "imbongi" or praise singer plays a vital role in ritual gatherings of the amaXhosa

[tape ends, continues 103-1]