Audio file 104-2

Wonga asks Ernest about the Empire Exhibition and his meeting at Marabadstad; Ernest diverts about colonial museum in France (mentions Musée de l'Homme, Picasso)

Wonga returns to the Empire Exhibition, the last, in 1936 in Cape Town; Ernest recounts that having read Guillaume's and Munro's "Primitive Negro Sculptures" (book not named) he hoped for recognition of African art, but that he realised they wanted touristic mementos instead, so he refused the position

The 1936 Empire Exhibition was held in Johannesburg, not Cape Town

Elza Miles transcribed a letter from van Warmelo to the South African Department of Native Affairs, dated 6 February 1936

Ernest adds that a black official was brought in to try to convince him; Ernest is convinced that white South Africans would not accept Africans as equals

during the trip, Ernest visits Elsa Dziomba (in Johannesburg) as arranged by Lippy Lipshitz; Ernest tells of Dziomba showing him her sculpture of a Central African man (possibly "Male Head" (date unknown), bronze), and explains to Wonga that it was like the clay bust made of him; Dziomba spoke of Western artists interest in African art which encouraged Ernest

Ernest told her of his artistic commissions from the Church and that she advised him not to forget his heritage; Ernest showed her photos of his work; Ernest recalls her descriptions of London, and of Paris as a cosmopolitan city; he and Wonga speak of Dziomba's husband

in audio file 86-1, Ernest speaks of "The vine and the branches" (1935) which he carved from Sister Margaret's design and ecclesiastical objects for the Anglican church

Ernest speaks of "Future Africa" (1934), sold to Bishop Parker who exhibited it at University of Fort Hare before Ernest was a student, subsequently the Professor of Mathematics refer to Ernest as the one with the wooden head; Wonga asks how the Bishop came to buy the work, Ernest replies he had seen "African Madonna" at Grace Dieu

Wonga returns to Dziomba and Ernest recalls her history and work; his visit to the British Museum to see the African collection may have been at her suggestion?

Ernest suddenly remembers Rheinalt Jones, the head of the institution who funded Ernest's trip out of South Africa, that he was friends with Bishop Parker

The institution he is referring to is the Bantu Welfare Trust; Ernest's thank you letter to them, dated 22 August 1937, is in the database

Wonga picks up the chronology with Ernest going back to Benoni; then Khaiso Secondary School offers him a teaching job on the recommendation of Bishop and Mrs Fuller (mentions Elza Miles)]

Ernest's family was living in Benoni in 1937

[tape stopped and restarted] Wonga asks if Ernest took the job because he had no money or prospects, Ernest agrees; Wonga asks about his qualifications: Ernest says he received a teaching certificate to teach English at the secondary level at the University of Fort Hare

Ernest completed his matriculation at the University of Fort Hare but did not complete his Bachelor or Arts; he would do so through the University of South Africa in 1937

Ernest cannot remember if his parents were still alive when he left for Pietersburg

Florence Mancoba passed away in 1933 and Ernest taught at Khaiso Secondary School (Pietersberg) in 1937

[tape ends]