Audio file 102-1

Wonga on African motifs (mentions Venda and Ndebele peoples) Ernest saw in the environs of Pietersburg which may have influenced his work

The Venda and the Ndebele are different peoples who inhabited the area Wonga is speaking of. The Venda people are known for woodcarving and the Ndebele people, for the geometric patterning of their beadwork and the murals on their houses

Wonga refers to the sculptor who made a gift to Ernest, wondering how the "thread of culture" is passed from one generation to another

the topic is also discussed in file 103-1

Wonga continues on the shamanism in art making and about human values, positing that art is important because it keeps conscious those values (mentions Shakespeare)

Wonga returns to the sculptor and the meaning behind his gift

[tape stopped and restarted] Ernest states that the purpose of African art is to concretise the ways of living and human relations that maintain human society; Ernest explains that it begins with childhood through stories

Wonga speaks of the crocodile given to Ernest as a totem, that it is both representational and has abstract geometric designs; Ernest finishes the thought by saying that it is the two aspects combined that create a singular symbol

Ernest continues that Sonja Ferlov Mancoba came to understand African art from her early exposure to Carl Kjersmeier collection, that the crocodile was both a crocodile and an abstract reality; Wonga sums this as the mind interprets what is sensed, and the crocodile provides a frame for the mental inner picture - the "reality of art"

Ernest agrees and tells an African folktale with an "ogre" but the children were saved because they could distinguish between representation and meaning

Wonga offers as a modern day equivalent the Nazi groups in Europe trying to seduce young people through rock music - that Nazis are the "ogres" and their songs are not art (mentions Mozart and Bach)

Wonga returns to the sculptor, that one of the elements he passed to Ernest is that art is not in form alone but must be unified with a spiritual message; Ernest agrees wholeheartedly

[tape stopped and restarted] Wonga continues about lessons of African art, that even if made by smallest tribe, it is intended for all humanity, such that even if different tribes cannot speak each others' verbal languages, the art would create a dialogue; that art would transform overtime as part of that dialogue; Ernest agrees enthusiastically

Ernest gives as an example the amaFengu who as immigrants were allowed into amaXhosa territory, that the amaFengu's Zulu language came to include amaXhosa language and customs, including the amaXhosa male initiation ritual of circumcision, and the amaXhosa also adapted some amaFengu customs

Today, African peoples are either described as the "Xhosa people" or "amaXhosa" where the prefix "ama" serves to mean people.

Likewise language is described as the "amaXhosa language" or "isiXhosa" where the preface "isi" means language

[tape ends]