Audio file 80-2

Wonga interrupts Ernest on his thoughts of Occidental colonisation, that Europe would be in the second part of their memoire series

Ernest speaks of his time in Cape Town when he met Western artists like Lippy Lipshitz who referred him to books on African art and recommended studying in Paris

Ernest recalls articles on him in South African newspapers, such as The Star

Through such exposure, Ernest got financial support to go to Europe (mentions Rheinallt Jones' organisation for African liberation)

Wonga wants to discuss Europe; Ernest speaks of the ship that took him to England, the Balmoral Castle, and of race segregation on the boat

see Mancoba's diary 1938-1940 for his timeous account of the journey (tip: look under Chronology for transcription)

Mancoba mis-remembers that he and his "Indian friend" from Natal were the only non-whites, there were others including Africans that Ernest associated with.

Wonga wants to know how Ernest and his friend were treated as second class passengers and as non-Whites on board the boat [tape stopped and restarted in midst of discussion]

Ernest speaks of the rest of the letter sent by his friend from the trip which speaks of improvement in South Africa with Nelson Mandela and the ANC

find the digitised letter from T.C. Mehta in the database

African National Congress (ANC) was formed in 1911 and Nelson Mandela became the first President of post-apartheid South Africa in 1994

Ernest remembers a white passenger on the boat who says the way for non-whites to earn a living in England is to be a "fortune teller"

[tape stopped and restarted] Ernest recalls how he passed time on the ship, that he had not much company because most passengers were white; he returns to the survival tip given by the white man; Wonga admonishes him for not providing sufficiently interesting details

see Mancoba's diary 1938-1940 for his timeous account of the journey (tip: look under Chronology for transcription)

[tape stopped and restarted] Wonga asks Ernest to speak of seeing the German ship; Wonga believes the boat was a sponsored trip for poor Germans by the Nazis; Ernest recalls animosity towards the British travellers by the German tourists who were surprised to see him, a black man

(unnamed but likely to be General Artigas)

[tape ends]