Audio file 49-1

Ernest recalls White passengers on the boat from South Africa to the United Kingdom avoiding him, but that one offered him advice to perform as an exotic if he wanted to succeed in England

On 2 September 1938, Ernest boarded The Balmoral Castle sailing from Cape Town to Southampton, England

for Ernest's contemporaneous account of the voyage, refer to his diary 1938-1940.

for a fellow passenger's account, refer letter from T.C. Mehta (dated 1995-09-05)

[tape stopped and restarts] Wonga is surprised when Ernest tells him that his first boat trip was when he went to Cape Town; Wonga wants to speak about the trip to the United Kingdom and Ernest says Goolam Gool bade him goodbye but does not otherwise recall his emotional state

Wonga tries different questioning [tape stopped and restarts multiple times]; Ernest says he was disillusioned with South Africa and looked to leave, but that he was disappointed with the United Kingdom when he was met with racist chants by children

Wonga asks Ernest about seeing a passing German passenger ship and whether there was tension between them and the British passengers on his ship; Ernest comments about the legacy of World War I and Germany's loss of the colonies; [tape stopped and restarts] Wonga explains that he wants Ernest to speak of his emotional state at the time of his journey and to look back on symbollic events [mentions Artaud as example]

Wonga asks Ernest about his segregation despite the boat being English and whether he was surprised or not

for Ernest's contemporaneous observation of his treatment, refer to his diary 1938-1940

Wonga returns to the German passenger boat and Ernest takes exception to Wonga's assumption about the passengers, they argue

for Ernest's contemporaneous observation of the German boat, refer to his diary 1938-1940

[tape stopped and restarts] Ernest says that he only heard negative things about Germans when he was in South Africa (including by his Namibian friend Geoffrey Davids); that he only knew the passengers were workers because of Wonga; Wonga speaks of Nazis and policies for workers [in English and French], they argue

Namibia was a German colony from 1884 to 1915, then South African became her coloniser (until 1990)

[tape stopped and restarts] Wonga expands on Nazi policy that benefitted workers [speaks in French] [mentions Cuba and the Soviet Union]; [tape stopped and restarts] Wonga speculates on the German ship [speaks mostly in French]; [tape stopped and restarts] they argue about significance of their choice of topic

[recording ends]

[tape ends, continues 49-2]