Audio file 11-1

Wonga speaks of Dada, Duchamp [in French]

[tape stopped and restarts] Ernest expresses disbelief that despite historical upheavals humans are still adrift, and humans need directives of thoughts even if illusory

Wonga agrees, speaks of failures in humanity [in French]; Ernest points to a lack of intellectual leadership in the West, hypothesising that it is due to fear of losing what they have (to the non-West); Ernest continues that the "Third World" is suffering

[tape stopped and restarts] Ernest observes that history is conflicts between the "haves" and the "have-nots" - and speaks of the French revolution [tape stopped and starts multiple times], they continue their discussion

Wonga concludes that the true value of art is in the creation of humanity [in French]; [tape stopped and restarts] Ernest responds that if the artist belongs to the "have" group but if stands up for the "have-not" group, it is a betrayal of his/her group which requires courage

Ernest tries to define art: "art is the means …that humanity possesses to feel; the artists are the feelers…of humanity towards the unknown future…"; he tries to explain "feeling"

Wonga responds on the responsibility of the intellectuals [in French], Ernest seems to agree

[tape ends]