Audio file 139-2

[continues from 139-1] Ernest describes Alberto Giacometti's sympathy for those who were not well off

asked about Giacometti's studio, Ernest replies that Giacometti continued to stay there even when he could afford a larger and better studio

Wonga asks if Giacometti made preparatory drawings directly on the walls, Ernest says that he had a table for sketches but that he also drew on the walls

[tape stopped and restarts multiple times as they argue]

Wonga interprets Giacometti's attitude towards making art and his equal treatment of everybody - the poor woman and Jean Genet who came to visit

[tape stopped and restarted] Ernest starts to speak of an intimate conversation with Giacometti in the neighbourhood café; Wonga is distracted; Ernest continues: Giacometti, observing passersby, comments on their ignorance of tragedy

Ernest adds that Giacometti saw people walking as a sign of resilience; Wonga interprets Giacometti's sculptures of people walking; [tape stopped and restarted] Wonga recaps Giacometti and Ernest conversation at the café and interprets Giacometti's sculptures (compares the figures to the sculptures of the Cyclade)

[tape stopped and restarted] Ernest tries to gather his memories at Rue d'Ulm and spending time with Sonja and Bille; Wonga interrupts, tries to date when Ernest lived in different places

Ernest stayed in 3 studios from his arrival in Paris to the family leaving for Denmark. Rue d'Ulm was the first, Rue d'Aguerre second, Giacomett's complex last

Wonga asks if it was from Giacometti's complex where Ernest was captured for internment during the war, Ernest confirms; they discuss the moment when Ernest is captured; Wonga tries to date and place events based on when Sonja returned to Denmark; Wonga wants to speak about events before then but Ernest wants to keep going

Wonga returns to 1938, Ernest being warned about upcoming war whilst on board ships from South Africa and from England

[tape ends]