Audio file 135-2

[continuation from 135-1] Wonga continues about Eric Thommesen (mentions Alberto Giacometti), and opines that the Danish avant-garde argument was really a "pretext" to impose views on what art should be, criticising the Hard Edge artists

The Danish avant-garde disagreed on the direction of abstract art, with some advocating towards the analytical "Hard Edge" and others, spontaneous "CoBrA"

Wonga opines on how Sonja Ferlov Mancoba's approach was not to close but to open; that her stance sees her isolated by the Danish avant-garde, and she and Ernest become closed off

Ferlov Mancoba was invited to exhibit with Linien II (which showed more "Hard Edge" artists) and Høst (which showed more spontaneous artists). But after 1949, when Høst ended, she was not invited to participate in any Danish associations (until much later)

Note that Linien II is unrelated to Linien

Wonga returns to Eric Thommesen's change in stance

Ernest states his belief that the Occident tries to impose their beliefs onto the non-Occident, that Ferlov Mancoba and he disagreed with this; that they had left Paris with hope for Denmark but were disappointed; Ernest states that Ferlov Mancoba and he were attempting to find an art that was truly "universal"

Ernest and Wonga argue about Antonin Artaud

Wonga returns to why they left Denmark, speaks about the need to respect the Africans, not just their art, which would open the debate about the wider world order; that artists such as Picasso did not do so because they did not want to disturb their world order; that Carl Kjersmeier saw the Danish artists' lack of depth of interest so would not show them his collection

Carl and Amalie Kjersmeier were important collectors of African art who learned about the people as much as the art, and shared this knowledge through books that Carl wrote. Ernest is recalling an incident when the Danish avant-garde wanted to visit the collection but the Kjersmeiers refused them, allowing only Ernest and Sonja

Wonga returns to praising Thommessen, rebuking the Hard Edge group and CoBrA [he speaks in English and French]

Ernest recalls a member of the Dominique family (in Paris) who wanted to revive CoBrA but was met with resistance because the Occident did not want to change the world order; Wonga states that to relegate CoBrA to a past movement is to take away its threat

The Dominique family is unidentified, but in the archives there are correspondence with Gaulme Dominique (a French journalist)

[tape stopped restarted] Wonga wants to go back before Høst, mentioning Linien and Helhesten; he chronicles an exhibiton of abstract art by Else Alfelt and Carl-Henning Pedersen, followed by an exhibition of Linien artists which would be Linien's last

The Danish art landscape was populated by self-organised associations. Linien was active between 1934 and 1938 (Sonja Ferlov Mancoba was a member). Note that Linien and the later Linien II are unrelated

Wonga speaks about Helhesten (and Asger Jorn), that Egill Jacobsen wrote an anti-constructivist essay referring obliquely to Richard Mortensen, but that Mortensen still involved the wider group in discussion, but that it stopped in 1949 and it became "like a war between 2 armies"

Helhesten was active during World War II, organised by Asger Jorn

Wonga speaks of Ferlov Mancoba's involvement on both sides during this time: in Linien II and Høst; showing "Confiance" at an exhibition at Galerie Denise Rene [in 1963] - suggested at Mortensen's instigation

Galerie Denise Rene was a Parisian gallery that specialised in "Hard Edge" (or "Op art")

[tape ends]